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Post by VBF-12_UnionJak on May 4, 2019 14:59:21 GMT -5
That’s an impressive description but they are bound to talk it up. How many degrees of freedom will Two Base stations give? Not sure about off ear headset for an aircraft application as our sounds are tuned to be helmet realistic - ie it’s suppose to sound like its inside your head, especially the radio comms. We’d more opinions on this... You know opinions are like assholes! Everyone has one! So here is MINE! LOL OK... So... This is my third attempt to explain my opinion! Too many reasons, details, etc. So I'm going to try and keep it simple! LOL After MUCH deliberation!!! I'll be part of the first wave of Valve Index orders. I usually wait for a product to be proven. But after tasting the Rift I'm HUNGRY! LOL TrackIR is still a great entry level of immersion. (Whitey.. No I'm not mentioning your bloody button hoods! Bugger... I just did! LOL) The new Rift S should be a good entry level VR headset at $399. $999 for the Valve Index complete kit. Less if you already have the Vive light towers and controllers. $699 Pimax 5+ / $899 headset only! From what I've read Vive light towers also required to track head movement. Controllers maybe? Pimax are asking for a $300 deposit pre-order for controllers and light towers. Release unknown? Full cost not known? I really was interested in the Pimax. The 5+ more so than the 8K. I'm not convinced we will have the performance required any time soon to fully appreciate the 8K. That being said I think Stick did good to get the lower cost of the backer way back when. The Pimax isn't complete, no headphones, poor head strap, poor face foam, from what people say online. There is after market face foam replacement and head strap upgrade with headphones. An additional $150. I think Pimax will come to fruition but when? Valve looks like good quality, full kit options, with possibly future open source improvements to come. XTAL!!!! Now this is the dogs bollocks at 4,900 euros!!! I wish!!!!!!! So... If you want a taste I think the Rift S... Otherwise it's between the state of Pimax and what will Valve Index really be like? Valve higher refresh rates compared to Pimax WIDE view!
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Post by VBF-12 Stele on May 4, 2019 18:36:46 GMT -5
Sounds like it was a great experience, Stick. Definitely has my attention, now.
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 4, 2019 19:25:33 GMT -5
Jak, I just tried Small on the 8K which is about 120 degrees horizontal FOV and it's really not bad, just a little more of a goggle look on each side. This approximates the same FOV horizontally that I see on my monitor. If it allows me to boot up some higher graphic settings I may keep it on that. I think the Index is 130 but not sure how it is measured (diag vs horz). Should look about the same for FOV.
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Post by VBF-12_UnionJak on May 4, 2019 19:48:02 GMT -5
Jak, I just tried Small on the 8K which is about 120 degrees horizontal FOV and it's really not bad, just a little more of a goggle look on each side. If it allows me to boot up some higher graphic settings I may keep it on that. I think the Index is 130 but not sure how it is measured (diag vs horz). Should look about the same for FOV. I'd seen 130 degrees stated but it seemed vague. It also, apparently, depends how close to the eye balls you can get the lenses. LOL Guess I'll find out. Either way... exciting times!
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Post by VBF-12 Gosling on May 5, 2019 9:49:53 GMT -5
So, the question of controls. With complicated aircraft like the hornet, how does one operate the cockpit when flying on VR? I’m thinking the DDI buttons etc. Ie stuff NOT on the HOTAS???
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Post by VBF-12_UnionJak on May 5, 2019 12:41:30 GMT -5
So, the question of controls. With complicated aircraft like the hornet, how does one operate the cockpit when flying on VR? I’m thinking the DDI buttons etc. Ie stuff NOT on the HOTAS??? DCS gives you a dot, so you look at the button or lever with the dot. And I have a four way switch on my stick as left/right mouse button.
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 5, 2019 13:23:10 GMT -5
So, the question of controls. With complicated aircraft like the hornet, how does one operate the cockpit when flying on VR? I’m thinking the DDI buttons etc. Ie stuff NOT on the HOTAS???
Not plugging Pimax but check out this article, scroll to the Leap Motion Integration section. There is a USB-C port on the bottom of the headset to plug in a hand tracking unit. This will not require gloves, just bare hands. I saw videos of people using it at the developer meetups. In addition I saw a video of a guy using it on a flight sim. He was able to reach out and grab the virtual control column and throttle and take off. He could flick switches etc. This is not currently available and depends on many things to make it come to fruition. If this did become common in VR we could maybe throw away all the hardware control gear.
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 5, 2019 15:45:09 GMT -5
One thing I haven't talked about are my experiences with the Pimax relates to their software PiTools. There is a setting called Smart Smoothing which is supposed to double the fps. I tried it out in IL-2 and while I was able to fly on 35 fps it was causing artifacts and doubling of some objects. Yesterday they came out with a new version which I have not tried yet. Here is a post someone put up about this new version in use with DCS.
In addition, PiTools has Fixed Foveated Rendering (FFR) which is supposed to help with fps. I was unable to use this in IL-2 as it would make everything crash. The new version addressed the issue aimed mainly to fix the IL-2 issue. Have not tried this either.
Will report back once I have tried things out.
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 7, 2019 13:56:36 GMT -5
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 7, 2019 14:19:04 GMT -5
Today I installed the latest PiTool to test Smart Smmothing and FFR. I tested it in Normal FOV. Here’s what I found. Smart Smoothing: It initially gave double vision of the reticle of the gunsight at 80Hz but this went away at 72Hz. At 80Hz I received some judder flying low over a city with it on. At 72Hz flying low level over a city was smooth. With SmSm on at 72Hz I was able to increase some in-game graphics settings without an impact to the smoothness while playing. FFR: It looked good on Balanced mode, did not really notice much of a difference visually. Low over a city however I was getting some hesitations which weren’t there with SmS instead.
I accidentally found out a good test in VR was to get into a hard spin. If it stays smooth in the spin you're probably good to go.
I think for my system and settings I'll be using the Smart Smoothing at 72Hz.
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Post by VBF-12 Gosling on May 7, 2019 18:40:49 GMT -5
The spin test sounds like a good standard and one that can be applied easily and relatively quickly. Need about 10,000ft. And it’s probably not aircraft dependant.
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 14, 2019 10:22:34 GMT -5
In prior posts I wrote of my first experiences with VR. I thought I would also lay out my trials and tribulations of setup and running of my Pimax. I have now had the HMD for a period of time that has allowed me to tweak it to good quality/performance settings between PiTool, SteamVR and IL-2. In addition I have had to overcome other issues. For those interested I thought I would list some issues I encountered and their solutions.
1. At first I had no Lighthouse for tracking and relied on the internal 2D tracking of the HMD. PiTool would recognize the HMD, then drop it as if disconnected. Switching the USB from a 3.0 powered HUB port to a 3.1 direct port solved this issue. I initially tried the internal 2D tracking but this was total garbage (huge hesitations) so I purchased a Vive LH. Once recognized, tracking is smooth and 6DoF.
2. Initial tracking recognition. Each time I start the HMD, PiTool shows the LH as recognized but "Not Tracked". The fix is to turn the headset away from the LH for a for seconds and then back and PiTool then shows it as Ready. Minor nuisance.
3. During IL-2 sorties I have had issues where tracking was dropped, either for a few seconds or all together. This was intermittent and infrequent but always seemed to occur at a critical time. I am not the only Pimax owner experiencing this. I don't know if other HMDs have this issue. There are several theories in the community as to why this happens but it seems to be one of the following:
A. Distance of HMD to LH - minimum 150cm recommended (mine is 130cm) B. OS setting for “USB selective suspend setting” is enabled, which needs to be disabled. C. Touching HMD near sensors during use D. EMI near HMD
For A I changed location of LH to a more centered and much higher position looking down at a 45 degree angle which helped a lot and tracking loss became less frequent. For B I changed setting in OS but loss of tracking continued. For C I tested by not touching the headset during use but continued to loss tracking. For D I noticed that during the day I was not losing tracking but at night I was. The only difference was I used speakers during the day and wore headphones at night. I stopped wearing the headphones and have not loss tracking since (fingers crossed).
4. Comfort - The HMD itself is light and the "temporary" head straps comfortable. You have to set you eyes IPD (interpupillary distance) which you do by a rotary switch on the HMD which physically moves the lenses. Some have found that with a smaller IPD the lenses pinch the nose, and begins bearing the weight of the HMD. The padding in this area is not the best. After an hour or so I have felt it becoming uncomfortable. My temporary fix has been to place some gauze in the nose area. Still looking for a more permanent solution. There are inexpensive non-Pimax foam replacements available that others have used to solve the issue.
5. An additional issue I have that I'm not sure the cause of is my software which controls my key commands (Joystick Gremlin) deactivates once in awhile in flight. Reactivation requires an alt-tab and mouse click on an icon but with an HMD this is awkward. I never had this issue prior to VR. My theory is it relates to PiTool, SteamVR or Discord or some combination.
I think it is safe to assume that the Pimax, and maybe other HMDs, are not plug and play. Even with the issues above however, I think my experiences have actually been relatively smooth comparatively.
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Post by VBF-12_UnionJak on May 21, 2019 8:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 21, 2019 9:50:43 GMT -5
And the only thing you get is the headset as the base stations and controllers don't exist yet.
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Post by VBF-12 Stick on May 21, 2019 11:31:17 GMT -5
Subsequent to my earlier posts about VR I have now had time to experience more and reflect on things. The following relate to my specific experiences with the 8K in IL-2, as that is all I have to go on, however they may apply to VR in general. Pros: The immersion factor. The 3D and being surrounded by the environment is amazing. The bodily feelings you experience as your brain is fooled by the above. The FOV is wide and tall enough that there is no tunnel vision. It is like being there.
The ability to better follow a bandit and improvement in gunnery. SDE is at a minimum and unnoticed when playing and no god rays. The 8K has 80Hz panels but I run them at 72Hz and the experience is smooth. Pimax PiTool provides brightness and contrast settings to help dial in visuals. Cons: The need for a high end graphics card. The quality of the graphics is less than a monitor. Say that monitor graphics are a 10, VR might be a 7. This loss in clarity in VR takes away some of the immersion. This is true although the Pimax input of 1440 is the same and the panels are higher density at 2160. Checking one's six is problematic as snap views do not exist. This may be more realistic but in mp you are at a distinct disadvantage. EDIT: The in-game zoom for VR is about 25% of non-VR zoom. Spotting is more restricted as a result.
The need to dial back graphic settings in-game to achieve sufficient frame rates when flying. You have to tweak settings between the graphics card software, PiTool (Pimax's software), SteamVR (helps in rendering) and the game. There is no one best grouping of settings to use and everyone seems to have their own solution. Although the headset itself is fairly comfortable, the area at the bridge of the nose gets pinched by the lenses. A little extra padding needs to be added. A simple mod but a nuisance. Smart Smoothing and FFR need work before being ready for prime time. Tracking with one LH will drop out occasionally. Haven't identified the culprit yet but believe it may be too close to the headset. Other: There are optimizations in the pipeline that could result in higher frame rates. Higher frames would allow higher graphics settings. How much these higher settings would move the quality level closer to a 10 is unknown. Even an 8 could be a game changer. One of the changes IL-2 devs could make is to eliminate the need for parallel projections which could give up to a 30% increase in frame rates. The 5K+ is known to have better clarity but by how much is subjective. Conclusion: I have, for now, reverted to the monitor for mp. I don't like being a sitting duck. The clarity difference and ability to scan more quickly beats the immersion factor of VR for now. I'll take a wait and see attitude to see what optimizations come out and how that affects things before making a final decision. I'll probably use VR in offline sorties, career mode, etc., as it's still fun. Maybe I'll get used to it more and become more confident with using it in mp. I couldn't recommend purchase of an 8K as it sits. A 5K+ may be a better choice but even that is questionable if mp is the intended use. Some are now looking forward to VR with true 2160 native panels though this has its own issues. IMO, and I think what Jak was getting at, clarity, whether on a monitor or in VR, is the Holy Grail.
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